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As always, a very coolly reasoned and objective take on the subject. Thank you very much, Ms History Calling.

Richard Floyd McCoy

I think that another factor that has to be considered is that this is afterall the 1500's. You were considered pretty lucky if you made it past the age of 40 and the infant mortality rate was something like 140 out of every 1000 live births. Today is close to something like 5 out of every 1000. There was no indoor plumbing and livestock lived right outside your house....or maybe in your house. Of course, this was a royal household, so I imagine it was somewhat cleaner...but there were hundreds if not thousands of people living in close proximity to you. It surely was not an ideally clean environment. Little to no medical or obstetric care. Pregnancy after Pregnancy, etc. The Queens basically had one job and that was to produce a male heir which had them in a perpetual state of pregnancy. Just not ideal. I watched something on Versaille and talked about how beautiful the castle is.....and how absolutely filthy it was with servants and guest urinating in every corner of the facility. At any rate, I believe that the RH factor and/or Kell Factor may also be at play here. I think that just the overall general time frame and standards of the time probably also had a huge impact. And, as Henry aged and became debilitated with his weight and general health decline....I think it is safe to assume that it became more and more difficult for him to do what was necessary to conceive a child.

Yes, Violet does once ask, @what is your governess teaching you”. You never see her, but there is a mention of one

Wow great video @historycalling I felt bad for the poor thing ...

My favourite is Catherine Howard after of Catherine of Aragon

Her: We're ranking the Tudors! Me: Henry VIII be fifth, Henry last, Henry last. When I saw who was ranked fifth: YES! YOU ARE MY QUEEN! HENRY IS LAST! When I saw who was ranked fourth: Seriously, Edward is not fourth! He was a child, he didn't even rule because he was a minor, he listened to what the council of regnants told him. When I see that Elizabeth I is in first place: HENRY, EAT YOUR WORDS! A GIRL CAN RULE AND BE AMONG THE BEST AND MAYBE THE BEST REGNANT!

Would be interested to see how the Brigerton episode in the recent Doctor Who series. Would be interesting :)

I admire that you do not apply 21st century standards to 16th century life. As you have stated, girls were considered marriageable by the age of 12 at that time. Religious upbringing was standard. To state that she was too young to understand what she was doing is just hard to believe. While she may have been impetuous or foolish...she certainly knew that there were consequences to her behaviors. And certainly after marrying King Henry, should would have been wholeheartedly aware that her cousin faced a devastating consequence for far less certain behaviors. I do wonder though if Henry was unable to perform satisfactorily enough to produce an heir and she was attempting to get pregnant in order to claim she was carrying a future heir.

whos here in june 2024?

Those that clung on to the corners survived the poo in which the others perished.Henceforth they became known as clingons for their stubborn refusal to be swept downwards to a sticky demise😂

She was the youngest of Henry's six wives . She was only 17 , a teenager and naive 😢😢

Yes. Being rescued from the latrine, and being consumed by bacteria and sepsis, and other diseases in the weeks to come

The comparison to Margaret I don’t get. Their situations were so different, Margaret had an element of safety being the kings sister she didn’t feel he would end her life if she did wrong, she also was free to make a move such as a new marriage. Kathrine wasn’t in a position to have any control or say in her life what so ever at that point. She was married to a man who at that time was no treat but she had no way out or forward. She was on dangerous ground. She was a victim of circumstance maybe even circumstances partly of her own making! But she was suck Margaret wasn’t stuck

I have to disagree with Gareth Russell on his argument that the relationship between Catherine and Manox was not abusive because adult men having romantic relationships with female children was normal for the time. A lot of things have been normal during certain periods of time in all kinds of cultures. Including using 4yo children as cheap labour for dangerous jobs, claiming ownership of people, or forcing women to kill themselves when their husband died. That does not mean that as historians, we should not look back and point out that such things were abhorrent, abusive, or brutal. Perspective and proper scientific knowledge of how brains develop and how children develop allows us the knowledge and authority to point out that children having relationships with adults is abuse. Our standards are different, and we should use them to highlight both the good and the bad. There's no reason to pretend otherwise unless we are open to not judging negatively the many other horrors that millions have gone through across history. By the argument of "it was normal at the time, their standards were different" we could give a pass to humanities biggest monstrosities (which honestly, should include by default the grooming and pedophilia across different eras), and that is not something we should ever do. Understanding that something was normal at a time does not mean we cannot point out that it is awful or abusive by our current standards.

I think that she did commit adultery against Henry. Still, even though she is not innocent in her actions as queen, the double-standard of the age and the routine exploitation of young girls is to blame for poor Katherine's situation. From the time she was born, nobody looked out for her and any that did take interest in her did so only for their own benefit.

Amazing account, much time & research required!💕

I think she probably did commit adultery with Culpepper, given neither she nor he had a reputation for reigning in their desires, and given Jane Boleyn was arranging secret meetings between them. Her story always strikes me as terribly sad. She was no schemer like Anne Boleyn or Jane Seymour, both of whom carefully orchestrated their seduction of Henry. She was no political animal like Katherine of Aragon or Anne of Cleves, one of whom used her political influence to cling on for years and the other of whom had just enough influence to arrange her own safety while also being happy to surrender to comfortable defeat. And she didn’t have the education and intelligence of Katherine Parr, who was the only one of Henry’s wives to walk herself into a death warrant and then talk her way out of it, and who may have been in love with another man while Henry courted and wed her, but who gave no sign of it until Henry was dead. I think Katherine Howard was smarter and less shallow than most people give her credit for given what few records we have from her brief time as Queen, but she was a very ordinary girl who was thrust to the forefront of a particularly vicious court, she had let her heart rule her head from her early days, and she soon got in well over her head, with her family’s enemies taking full advantage of that. She was exploited by people who should have protected her. She was thrown into a position she was utterly unsuited for but couldn’t say no to. She had a past she couldn’t cover up. She fell in love and couldn’t resist. She seems far more wronged than wrong.

While I would never say she deserved to die for it, I do unfortunately think she acted quite foolishly.

Absolutely Henry Tudor stole the throne he had NO RIGHT whatsoever to it. He was a branch off the WIDOW of Henry the 5 th. ( grandson of ) she married a Welsh landowner ,so had no claims on the English throne ( she was a French princess). Trouble was the mentally ill Henry 6 ,after his own son died named him his successor . But by birth he had no rights at all .

She's my ancestor! :(

This Kathryn deserved her fate, though harsh and unmerciful as Henry was to all. But the first Katherine, of Aragon, was the true innocent which Henry did not hesitate to wrong and put away for no other reason than his lust and vanity. In the end, I'm sure he was tortured by his STD much before he went before the Just Judge from whom there is no royal appeal. Kathryn Howard seems to have made a far more repentant end. Good job.

Oh, poor Henry, always the "victim". It reminds me of a certain political figure here in the States. Woo is me. These men! I don't think that the saying "Man up" is accurate because they have more fragile ego's than we do! I feel sorry for every one of his wives and the court that he had sent to The Tower and/or put to death. Major jerk!!

Anne sh1d have piled on H after his horse sat on him and invited the court to pile on H.

I love the description "an idiot who couldn't keep his trap shut"😂

Is ‘The Ton’ an historically accurate phrase, referring to the upper society community? Id never heard it before Bridgerton, and I’ve read/ watched a lot of Jane Austen…

First off, the portrait looks just like Scarlett Johansson. Second, she was a teenage girl married to a 50 year old man with a festering leg who was morbidly obese. Is it any wonder she wanted to be with younger and more attractive people? Yes, I think she had affairs.

Katherine deserved better. You're really one of my favorite YT channels HC 😊

Why any parent would push to get their daughter to wed a potential king. These marriages rarely end happily. Of course, it wasn't for love but money.

That was a nice Diamond gold ring.

Poor Jane and Guilford. My heart goes out to them.

Certainly a sad tale. How many of us deserve a similar fate?

I use to think of Katherine as a total victim but The fact that Katherine choose to break off her relationships with Manox & Dareham tells me that she knew what she was doing & was not groomed or abused. Perhaps just too young, Didn’t have enough moral guidance & gravitated to the wrong type of men. Since these two seem to have been jerks. As for Culpeper, I think she wholeheartedly pursued this relationship & was in denial as to the consequences. As Queen, how could she not realize how she was held accountable to a higher standard? She obviously did not learn from what happened to her cousin Anne Boleyn. Such a tragic end to such a young person

I think “Most tragic” is subjective, and I would pick Catherine of Aragon or Jane Seymour as easily more tragic. I could even see someone arguing that Catherine Parr’s story is more tragic. She survived her marriage with H VIII only to die before she could watch her child grow up. Katherine Howard, not unlike Mary, QoS, had a pattern of making poor choices. Mary casts a more sympathetic figure, though. Perhaps “Second most complex” (after Anne Boleyn) is how I’d label Katherine Howard.

It would be appreciated if you could do a future video on Hannah Lightfoot, the Fair Quakeress. For some reason she has popped up in several things I have read or watched lately. We all know you use primary sources and it would be very interesting for know if Hannah was just a lovely Georgian romance story or if she actually existed and to what extent her relationship evolved. Thank you

I feel that Mary gave Elizabeth little choice in the matter. She continued to agree to plots against Elizabeth knowing what she was doing was treason and the punishment would eventually have to be her death.

I am always moved by the biography of Katherine Howard. Thank you. I liked that you presented a different viewpoint on the validity of the victimization theory. I will have to ponder that a bit more before I make my own conclusion 😀

It’s difficult to hear the tragic life of this woman. Seems she had not been cared for properly, the woman entrusted to care for her allowed men to use her, she probably didn’t understand her predicament & suffered the consequences. Henry should have known better than to marry someone so young. It’s difficult to believe that a 16-19 year old would be satisfied with a man old enough to be her grandfather. Enter Culpepper. It was a terrible tragedy.

Charlotte was a black princess the first black member of the Royal Family.

Here's a different spin on Katherine. She was above the rules. She didn't respect the boys she spurned. She married a guy who killed his wife for alleged affairs. She may or may not have had an affair with Culpepper, but she definitely didn't go to much trouble to hide indiscrete behavior. She surrounded herself with people who could make sure her life was interesting, almost like an adrenaline junkie. Maybe it was all just a crazy, wild, almost unreal game to her.... until it terrifyingly wasn't.

Thank you for the video. I have a keen interest in Katherine Howard, since she is my 1st cousin 14 times removed. I 'm descended from her uncle, Thomas Howard the Duke of Norfolk. There had always been some rumors in the Howard family that Katherine's body was exhumed after Henry's death and the body was moved to one the Howard's Estates and placed in an unmarked grave, due to the scandal that she brought upon the family. These are only rumors and there is no concrete evidence for this.

I look at the people around Katherine as being poor advisors and gross manipulators. By now Henry was too ill to be reasonable and everyone was jockeying for position. Katherine was naive to the point of stupidity but I do not believe she carried on with all those named after her marriage. Poor ignorant child.

I would have felt sorry for her if not for the Culpepper affair. Whatever her mistakes prior to marrying the king, she had to know full well the risks involved in even the appearance of wrongdoing, let alone actually spending time with another man and writing him such indiscreet letters. By that time, she was old enough to know better.

I think they all cheated

I love that brief shining moment of her and Anne of Cleves dancing and being young women together.

This was a very comprehensive history of Catherine Howard and I thank you for your thorough research. I was always of the opinion that CH was a reckless and stupid girl, who plotted to conceive a child with Culpepper because the King was unable to perform. But having listened to your complete and detailed outline, I feel rather more sympathetic toward her. I've always wondered what in heaven she could have been about, if not Treason with Culpepper and assumed he was as idiotic, undisciplined and reckless as she. But I wonder, could she have been contemplating release from the marriage, such as she'd seen with the most recent of Henry's other wives, Anne of Cleves? Anne had been their honored guest at Christmas, and it may have presented Catherine with a plan, one that would have given her status, income and perhaps the man of her dreams. If she could outlive Henry, or be rejected by him, and go quietly, as Anne had, she could have Culpepper. This could have been what they were doing closeted up together - hatching this plan. Clearly they were romantically involved, which itself would have been treason. But now I don't think she was foolish enough to try to conceive with him. I think perhaps she was coping with her marriage to a sickly, overweight, elderly man who left her too often to herself, but never free. Perhaps she sought Culpepper's advice, as the only MAN she could trust with the knowledge that she wanted out of the marriage? She may have sought HIS advice either to understand why Henry couldn't, and what to do about it, what it meant about his health, or inclination. Had she failed in some way, or did Henry's desire for her fail? Did it mean he'd release her? She may never have encountered a man who didn't rise to the occasion. ;-)

Growing up I do believe theses men took advantage of Katherine and those girls and should of known better. Her guardian definitely should of known better. When Katherine became the Queen she should of known better true and her lady-in-waiting should have stopped the affair. Maybe Katherine thought she was in love with and gathered that if her hubby had affairs she could too. What a mess though.

I think Katherine committed adultery. But I'm baffled by Lady Rochford though. She saw what happened to her husband and sister-in-law. I don't understand why she'd help Katherine sneak around.

I believe she committed adultery with Culpepper. I am probably in the minority, but I think it was a well-thought out decision. She was quite aware of the number of people Henry murdered. There were rumors he had Catherine of Aragon poisoned; he judicially murdered Anne Boleyn on made up charges; he threatened the supposed love of his life Jane; Anne of Cleves was so terrified when he asked for an annulment that she fainted. Catherine Howard would have been aware of all this. Henry had been staying away from her, undoubtedly making her concerned about his attachment to her. Maybe, just maybe, she figured having sex with someone she was actually attracted to was worth the risk since the king could have her killed for any capricious reason he wanted. If she was at risk whether she lived an innocent life or not, why not do what she wanted? In a bizarre way, it may have been a comfort to her to be executed for something she actually did.

I agree with others that Mary Tudor was cut from different cloth than KH. Mary was daughter and sister of kings, and would have had a very different upbringing than KH. She would certainly have had a better idea of actions and consequences for royal ladies, and it strikes me Mary was brighter than her sister-in-law. Katherine may well have had not as much idea of how thin the ice she was skating on; but as you say, in the Culpeper situation, she DID know what she was doing was wrong. And she chose to do it anyway - she's not a blameless victim here. On a tangential point, I find it interesting that it was her situation that introduced Royal Assent to bills not having to be provided by the monarch in person -- but nearly always these days by commission appointed for the task. Henry couldn't face assenting to the Bill of Attainder, so a commission did it for him. Anne Boleyn was condemned by a legal trial (rigged though it was) so the King didn't actually have to pronounce the death sentence. Then again, he would have had to sign the death warrant, so I'm not clear why he got so picky in KH's case